Summary
Hank Green argues that the clustering of recent presidential candidates and officeholders around the Baby Boomer birth years is not just a coincidence but the result of a long period of boomer dominance in American politics. He says that dominance lasted so long partly because people live longer and can remain politically active longer, but also because the structure of American politics favors incumbents through gerrymandered safe districts, growing partisanship, accumulated institutional experience, name recognition, and entrenched fundraising networks.
He also argues that boomers benefited from entering politics just as it became a fully professionalized career shaped by television, national fundraising, and political consultants. Beyond those structural advantages, he says boomers carried a powerful post-World War II national story: America as prosperous, unified, morally certain, and ascending. That nostalgia, in his view, has shaped both elections and public imagination for decades, even though that earlier America was never equally good for everyone.
Green’s conclusion is that this era is beginning to end. Gen X has started overtaking boomers in the House, while millennials and Gen Z are beginning to appear in Congress. He sees the transition as uncertain: the same systems that preserved boomer power are still in place, but the collapse of a single generational political story may open space for a new one. His closing question is what kind of story will replace it: one built on division and autocratic impulses, or one built on compromise, hope, and a different understanding of America.
Transcript
[00:00] Bernie Sanders 1941. Joe Biden 1942, [00:03] John Kerry 1943. Bill Clinton 1946, [00:07] George W. Bush 1946, Donald Trump 1946, [00:11] Hillary Clinton 1947, Mitt Romney 1947, [00:14] Al Gore 1948. That is a lot of people [00:16] that I have had the chance to vote for [00:18] for president in my life. Like almost [00:21] all of them. I think there are like two [00:22] people who I could have voted for who [00:23] are not on that list. But all of those [00:26] people, all of them were born within 8 [00:29] years of each other. Three of them, [00:31] Clinton, Bush, and Trump, all [00:32] presidents, were born in the same summer [00:35] of 1946. [00:37] What is going on? Now, of course, with [00:39] any small data set, there’s going to be [00:41] a high chance of some weird things going [00:44] on of of strange coincidences. So, of [00:46] course, you got to watch out for reading [00:47] too much into something like this, but [00:49] it goes beyond presidents. So, I think [00:51] it’s fair to say that there is a thing [00:53] going on here and it’s also about to [00:57] end. And because it’s definitely a thing [00:59] and it’s about to end, I think it really [01:01] is worth thinking about the fact that [01:02] the baby boomers have been the dominant [01:04] force in American politics for my entire [01:06] adult life. And I am 45 years old. But [01:09] now, more than halfway into my life, [01:12] that dominance is ending. Now, of [01:14] course, just by like the way that time [01:16] works, every generation does get its [01:18] moment in the sun. The silent generation [01:20] had their power for a while. The [01:21] greatest generation had their power [01:23] through the Cold War. But the Boomers [01:24] have had an incredible run. They have [01:27] been running the show since the 1990s. [01:29] They first became the majority in the [01:31] House of Representatives after the 1998 [01:33] midterms, which was the first election I [01:35] got the privilege of voting in. By 2001, [01:37] they made up over half of both chambers, [01:39] and they stayed there for 27 years [01:42] straight. That streak broke this year [01:46] when Gen X finally had more members in [01:48] the House than boomers. But boomers [01:50] still run the Senate and the President [01:53] Donald Trump was born right there at the [01:55] beginning of the baby boomer generation. [01:57] And then there is Obama who I definitely [01:59] consider to be an outlier here. Cool, [02:00] young, and born in ’ 61. Obama is [02:03] technically a boomer where Donald Trump [02:05] was right on the cusp between greatest [02:06] generation and boomers. Barack Obama [02:08] right on the cusp between boomers and [02:10] Gen X. I right on the cusp between Gen X [02:12] and millennials. Just saying my time [02:13] will come and my time will not come. But [02:15] it is interesting that we got 8 years of [02:17] like a very late boomer presidency and [02:19] then went back to 12 MORE YEARS OF [02:21] BOOMERS. 12 more. So what happened? [02:25] Well, I’m going to tell you my thoughts [02:26] on that. But first, this video is [02:27] sponsored by Ground News. It’s a website [02:28] and an app that gathers related articles [02:31] from around the world in one place and [02:33] gives you the context about the sourc’s [02:35] political leaning, their reliability, [02:37] their factuality, and also who owns [02:39] them. This lets you easily compare [02:41] coverage and understand the bigger [02:43] picture and also like understand the [02:45] parts of the news that you aren’t [02:46] seeing. One of my favorite things is to [02:47] look at articles that are being covered [02:48] like only by the center and not by [02:50] either side. It’s just like totally [02:52] different kinds of news. One thing, you [02:54] know, I’m searching for a lot is comet [02:56] Threei Atlas. And they actually have [02:57] like a three Atlas category that you can [03:00] add to your homepage and look at that [03:02] all the time. And you could check out [03:03] these results from the Mircat Telescope [03:04] and how they’re being covered by [03:06] different organizations. like this one [03:07] from the center. I don’t know. A little [03:09] bit confusing to me. First radio signal [03:11] detected from three Atlas as it swiped [03:13] past the sun because that’s going to [03:14] seem to people who are not familiar with [03:16] how radio telescopes work like it’s a [03:18] radio signal which sounds to the average [03:20] person like it’s a man-made thing. And [03:22] this is an organization though of mixed [03:23] factuality. But then we’ve got live [03:25] science with very high factuality. [03:27] Astronomers detect first radio signal [03:29] from interstellar comet 3 atlas, but it [03:31] wasn’t aliens. From the left, radio [03:33] signal crushes alien theory about [03:35] interstellar comet 3i Atlas on Gizmodo. [03:38] And from the right, is 3i Atlas a [03:40] spaceship? Comet solar turn reveals more [03:42] hints of alien origins. Harvard expert, [03:45] I wonder who the Harvard expert is. This [03:47] is so weird to me because this isn’t [03:48] like a story that’s about politics, but [03:51] it is being covered very differently [03:53] from different sides of the political [03:54] spectrum. Like more differently than [03:56] most political stories. That’s useful [03:58] information. And I can actually go and [04:00] read that article and find out how the [04:01] Mircat Telescope works. Uh, and also it [04:04] doesn’t break the entire business model [04:06] of the news media, which I like. The [04:08] structures that underly our information [04:11] systems are bad now. You have all these [04:13] social feeds, you got the clickbait, you [04:16] got everybody fighting for the limited [04:17] attention, and everybody will do [04:19] anything in order to get that attention. [04:20] On ground news, you can see how many [04:22] news sources are covering the story cuz [04:24] that can be kind of a surrogate for how [04:26] widely important it is. You can compare [04:28] headlines. You can look at the bias [04:29] rating. You can also use the blind spot [04:30] feature to see things that you might [04:32] have missed because of the way that your [04:34] news feed works. Ground news just gives [04:36] you context around the news and also [04:37] gives you the opportunity to find the [04:39] source that you prefer and then go read [04:41] the story there. Subscribe to get 40% [04:43] off the Vantage plan by scanning the QR [04:45] code that has been on the screen the [04:46] whole time or by using my link which is [04:48] ground.new/hank which is also in the [04:51] description. Now, back to the video. Why [04:52] has one generation held on to power [04:54] longer than any other in American [04:56] history? Part of the answer right up [04:57] front. I think is like the boring and [04:59] good news of biology and medicine. [05:02] People are living longer. They are [05:03] living healthier. Medical care is [05:05] better. The average senator is 65 years [05:07] old. A fifth of all of Congress is over [05:09] 70. There are 19 members in their 80s. [05:12] Chuck Grassley, who is 91, will be 95 if [05:17] he finishes his term. We talk about the [05:18] gerontocracy. Part of the reason why it [05:21] exists is just that people are [05:23] physically capable of keeping their [05:25] power longer. Perhaps they have always [05:27] wanted to keep staying in power, but [05:29] they have died. They’ve had heart [05:30] attacks and then they aren’t in Congress [05:32] anymore. So, that’s part of the story, [05:33] but it’s only part of it. There’s also a [05:35] piece that is structural about the [05:38] structure of politics and American [05:40] government. Because it’s not just that [05:41] the people are old, it’s that our [05:42] political system makes it hard to get [05:46] people out of office. There is a [05:48] tremendous advantage to incumbency, or [05:50] at least there was for a long time. And [05:52] people keep not dying. So, if you get [05:54] both of those things, like if it’s easy [05:56] for someone to stay in power and they [05:58] don’t die, then they’re going to keep [06:00] getting older. But what are the [06:02] structures behind this incumbency [06:04] advantage? So, over the last few [06:06] decades, congressional districts have [06:07] become much safer. Fewer and fewer seats [06:10] are genuinely competitive, and that has [06:12] happened because of gerrymandering. [06:14] Like, if given the chance, elected [06:16] officials will redraw the lines of [06:18] congressional districts to make life [06:19] easier for themselves. Why wouldn’t [06:21] they? That can lock in incumbency [06:23] directly, but it can also increase [06:25] partisanship, which means that [06:27] incumbents rarely lose to the other side [06:29] because their districts become more and [06:31] more supportive of them as the country [06:34] gets more partisan. As everything begins [06:36] to be considered nationally rather than [06:38] locally, this is a thing in Montana [06:39] where like the Montana Democratic Party, [06:41] this is where I live for many decades, [06:43] was very different from the National [06:44] Democratic Party, but it can no longer [06:46] be imagined that way. And so this is a [06:48] pure red state whereas we used to have a [06:50] Democratic governor not so long ago. We [06:52] used to have Democratic representative. [06:53] We used to have a Democratic senator [06:54] because THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WAS [06:56] different here because it’s different [06:57] here. It’s Montana. It’s not like [06:59] California. So this rise of partisanship [07:01] means incumbents rarely lose to the [07:03] other side. So most of the challenges [07:05] these days come from people within your [07:07] own party running against you [07:09] specifically because the gerrymandering [07:12] drives that partisanship which means [07:13] that often you are being challenged by [07:15] someone who holds your views but like [07:16] the more extreme versions of them. [07:18] Political scientists have a name for [07:19] this. They call it the vanishing [07:21] marginalss problem. Fewer districts are [07:23] decided by slim margins which means [07:25] fewer opportunities for turnover. So [07:27] that’s one piece of the structure. [07:29] There’s another structural thing here. [07:30] The way DC works, insiders with a lot of [07:34] experience are more able to deliver for [07:36] their districts, which makes them harder [07:38] to run against. So if you’ve been in it [07:40] and you know how it works, then you’re [07:42] just better able to do the job than [07:44] somebody who’d be coming in fresh. So [07:46] that’s like a second structural thing. A [07:48] third structural thing is just that [07:50] politics has become more complex and [07:52] incumbency comes with a bunch of [07:54] advantages. Like name recognition is [07:56] part of it. like you’re out there doing [07:58] stuff and being in the news, but also [08:00] like you’ve built up staff, you have a [08:02] good team, you have media access, you [08:04] can be on the news, you have fundraising [08:06] networks that are already built and [08:08] operating. And speaking of fundraising, [08:11] our last structural thing is that in [08:14] 2021, the Silent Generation and Baby [08:16] Boomers together made up around 43% of [08:19] voters, but nearly 80% of political [08:22] spending. This is nuts. This made me [08:25] like mad. When I first read this, I got [08:28] actually mad. But like, of course they [08:31] do. Because boomers have around $80 [08:33] trillion compared with the wealth of Gen [08:35] X’s 45 trillion. That’s a big [08:38] difference. And because a lot of those [08:39] boomers don’t have very much wealth at [08:40] all, it means a lot of them have way [08:42] more like disposable wealth, wealth that [08:44] they’d like to do something with. They’d [08:46] like to make a difference with. They’re [08:48] no longer maybe working to make that [08:50] difference. And so instead, what do they [08:51] do? They spend that money making [08:53] politics go the way they want it to go. [08:55] Though to reiterate, I always have to [08:57] say whenever talking about wealth and [08:58] generations, this is not equally [09:00] distributed inside of the generations. [09:02] There are many people in the baby boomer [09:04] generation living in poverty. I just [09:05] feel like that never gets said, so I [09:07] have to say it every time. And this [09:08] isn’t just about the dollars. It’s about [09:10] the built infrastructure around it that [09:12] takes years to develop. Donor [09:14] relationships, packs, and super PACs and [09:17] bundlers and fundraisers. All of this is [09:20] a system and it is very important and it [09:23] is hard to build. It takes a long time [09:25] to build. And the system that exists [09:26] right now is built by and for the people [09:28] who have already been in power for [09:30] decades. If you’re 30 years old and you [09:31] want to run for Congress, you’re not [09:32] just up against another candidate. [09:34] You’re up against an entire generation’s [09:36] political machine. And you’re probably [09:37] not so mom Donnie thrust into the [09:40] political spotlight. You’re probably [09:41] running for like Florida’s 32nd [09:43] district. And nobody’s ever heard of [09:45] you. I don’t even know if Florida has a [09:46] 32nd district. That seems like a lot. [09:48] Florida’s 32nd district. It does have [09:52] one. Brevard County. I’ve been to [09:54] Brevard County. Brian Hodgers, who won [09:57] by around 2,000 votes. That was a pretty [10:00] close one. So, that’s a that was [10:01] actually kind of a I picked a a [10:03] marginalish district. The point is the [10:05] political apparatus is complex now. And [10:08] this was not always the case. In the [10:09] 19th century, almost half of lawmakers [10:12] had no prior political experience. They [10:14] were citizen legislators, which is like [10:16] a word that historians have made up [10:18] because this is a phenomenon of history. [10:20] These are people who briefly served and [10:22] then went back home to their jobs. Now, [10:24] politics is the job. You lose too much [10:28] when someone leaves. You lose that name [10:30] recognition. You lose those donor [10:31] relationships. You lose a bunch of [10:33] institutional knowledge of the arcane [10:35] systems of fundraising and of politics. [10:37] And this professionalization of politics [10:40] happened right as the boomer generation [10:42] came of age. They were the first to grow [10:44] up with television campaigns and [10:46] national fundraising and professional [10:49] consultants. All the tools you need to [10:51] make politics a career. So those are the [10:53] structural things. We’ve got biology, [10:54] we’ve got medicine, we’ve got structure, [10:57] but there’s also I think a last thing [11:00] and that thing is a story. America after [11:03] World War II was in many ways the great [11:07] that President Trump says we should be [11:09] again. This was a nation that had just [11:12] defeated fascism. It had been the [11:14] deciding factor in a world war. It had [11:17] built the atomic age. And people had [11:20] come home to this booming economy, a [11:22] flood of suburban optimism. They are [11:24] young. They’re in their teens and 20s. [11:27] And they are full of this moral [11:29] certainty because we were the good guys [11:32] who won. And they all they all knew [11:35] people who had died for that win. and [11:38] the amount of change that had happened [11:41] in their parents’ generation. So their [11:43] parents might have been growing up in a [11:44] world where 15% of children in the US [11:47] died before the age of five. And these [11:49] people would usher in a world where that [11:51] number dropped so far that a child dying [11:53] went from being a common occurrence to [11:56] an unthinkable tragedy. They watched [11:58] their parents build the highway system [12:00] and then space programs and then rock [12:03] and roll, baby. So when boomers took [12:05] this power, they were not just [12:06] inheriting a country. They were bringing [12:09] this myth with them about what the [12:11] country was. That’s what makes the world [12:13] of the 1950s feel so great to them full [12:16] of this unity and this confidence and [12:18] this upward motion and everybody in [12:20] power just like kind of pretended [12:22] together that all the bad things didn’t [12:24] exist and this thing that they grew up [12:26] with. It makes perfect sense that they [12:28] spent the last 27 years trying to [12:32] recreate it. While working on this [12:33] script with Kevin Lancis, both of us [12:35] could not help but call to mind this [12:37] XKCD comic. Every Christmas, and I’m [12:39] fine with this, we’re out here replaying [12:42] the soundtrack of their youth. But also, [12:44] for my whole life, we have been electing [12:47] the cool guys who were just a little bit [12:49] older than the average baby boomer. The [12:51] ones who could still remember and speak [12:54] to that great America, who grew up when [12:57] it felt like the world made sense and [13:00] America was unquestionably good. Every [13:02] holiday season is a boomer nostalgia [13:04] loop. Every election feeds off of that [13:06] same nostalgia loop. But for everyone [13:09] younger, that great is something we only [13:12] ever heard about. And we’re also very [13:14] aware that it was not great for [13:16] everyone. It was very intentionally only [13:18] great for some of us. And the longer [13:20] rumors stay in charge, the longer we [13:22] stay inside of a story that ended before [13:25] we were born and was never the whole [13:27] story anyway. But now something new was [13:30] definitely coming. This was the first [13:31] year since 1998 that boomers have not [13:34] been the largest generation in the House [13:36] of Representatives. Boomers still have [13:37] the Senate and the presidency. But Gen X [13:39] now does have that plurality in the [13:41] House. Millennials are showing up. Gen Z [13:43] has their first member of Congress. Now [13:45] look, some of the structures that held [13:47] boomers in place, longevity, money, [13:49] incumbency, gerrymandering, aren’t going [13:51] anywhere. I mean, unless we make them go [13:53] somewhere, which I am in favor of doing [13:55] and we should be looking at. So even [13:57] when they retire, the next generation is [13:59] going to inherit a lot of that same [14:01] system. Every generation likes to [14:02] imagine that’s going to do everything [14:04] differently, but power structures have [14:06] momentum. Once they start rolling, they [14:07] are hard to stop. But I can’t help [14:09] feeling like there’s like an opportunity [14:11] here. Maybe like the fraying of the [14:12] fabric of America is increasing. And [14:15] this is already showing signs of making [14:16] things hard for everybody because it [14:19] makes things very hard to do. That means [14:21] that if you’re going to actually do [14:22] something, you have to just be the ultra [14:25] powerful person. It’s actually a force [14:27] that pushes toward autocracy because if [14:29] you have problems and the normal systems [14:32] can’t solve them, then you have to [14:33] create new systems and that means [14:34] suddenly the president runs both the [14:37] executive and the legislative branch. [14:39] Which means that every four years we [14:40] like hire ourselves a new autocrat, [14:42] which is not how it should work. But [14:44] people are waking up to the systems that [14:46] push for this. And as you probably know, [14:48] I think that this is mostly due to the [14:50] fact that communications revolutions are [14:52] always very society disruptive and in [14:54] surprisingly repeatable ways. Also, you [14:57] may have heard, I think that [14:58] gerrymandering is the dumbest It’s [15:01] so dumb. It’s really stupid to let the [15:05] people who get elected for the districts [15:08] draw the lines of the districts. And [15:10] most places don’t do it that way because [15:13] it’s so dumb. However, I can also see as [15:16] part of it that this hegemonic [15:18] generation is finally losing its [15:20] control. And that means that maybe [15:22] there’s a chance for like doing [15:23] something a little bit different. I like [15:24] to think that division for the sake of [15:26] division will start to look like the [15:27] embarrassing stuff that the older [15:29] generation did. I’m probably wrong about [15:31] that, but I like to believe that there [15:33] might be something to this working [15:34] together nonsense. As a younger [15:36] colleague said to me recently, “Imagine [15:38] being incapable of compromise and [15:39] telling yourself it’s because you have [15:41] strong morals.” I replied with a fire [15:43] emoji. But we are at a fraying. I think [15:46] because of the structures of news media [15:48] and social media and gerrymandering and [15:51] all of the other stuff we talked about [15:52] in this video, but also maybe because of [15:54] the breaking of the hegemony of the [15:56] boomers. And if the hijgemony is ending, [15:58] and unless there are some really sudden [16:01] medical advancements, it it is ending. [16:03] There is a chance for something new [16:04] here. Who steps into this space? What do [16:07] they look like? Is it an AOC vibe or is [16:10] it a JD Vance vibe? Is it a Don Jr. vibe [16:13] or is it a Pete Budajage vibe? What [16:15] captures attention now? What will be [16:18] capturing attention five or 10 years [16:20] from now? Is it hatred and division? Is [16:23] it hope and understanding? What I think [16:26] is that right now America is like [16:29] holding auditions for the next story. [16:31] There’s like a simple boomer version of [16:33] the story. It’s this mythic thing. [16:36] America as a moral superpower. We are a [16:39] nation of winners, unified by prosperity [16:42] and purpose. But that story doesn’t hold [16:44] anymore because the world it described [16:47] doesn’t exist anymore. The postwar [16:49] economy is gone. A lot of hope is gone. [16:51] Right or wrong, this is a much more [16:53] nihilistic moment. So, what do we do [16:55] next? Honestly, the fact that that is a [16:57] question at all is giving me a little [16:59] bit of hope, but I don’t have good [17:00] answers for it. But I would like to have [17:02] a conversation about it. And so, I’m [17:04] going to do that. Now, I don’t think [17:06] that anybody has any idea what’s coming, [17:07] but I feel like you have a better idea [17:09] of what’s coming than I do. Everyone, [17:11] this is Joshua Doss. What is the correct [17:12] thing to call you? Are you a pollster? [17:14] >> I’m a pollster. Yeah, pollster by trade. [17:16] I work at a a consulting firm, but I do [17:18] data at the at the political consulting [17:20] firm. [17:21] >> What do I know about pollsters? Except [17:23] mostly that uh that it it has become an [17:25] impossible task and over and over again [17:28] the things that I feel like pollsters [17:30] are telling me end up not being [17:31] reflective of reality. though it tends [17:33] to only be in elections where Donald [17:35] Trump is involved. But [17:37] >> yes, lots of thoughts on that. If I know [17:39] that’s not what the typically where we [17:40] want to go down, but the high level [17:42] thing I’ll say is that the polls are [17:46] usually much closer than what people are [17:49] giving them credit for given the feat of [17:51] predicting turnout. It is usually how [17:54] they get interpreted that disappoints [17:56] people. [17:56] >> Is it just like schmucks on social media [17:58] doing the interpretation? No, I think [18:00] it’s it is pollsters who are more public [18:03] facing which like I guess I’ll [18:04] incriminate myself in that and the media [18:07] as well. Um but internally I worked at a [18:10] polling firm that has not missed an [18:12] election prediction yet. [18:14] >> They for the last 50 years they’ve been [18:16] right and that type of polling does [18:17] exist. It just doesn’t end up on CNN. [18:19] The big highle thought I had here was [18:20] basically uh it’s going to be different [18:22] and and we’re kind of deciding like [18:25] we’re we’re like holding auditions for [18:26] the future of American politics right [18:29] now. Does that track was that feel right [18:31] to you? [18:32] >> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. 100%. [18:34] >> Could you create a set of like a set of [18:37] categories for what those actors who [18:39] they might be? [18:40] >> We have the obvious ones of like the the [18:43] next person will be of that. I mean, you [18:45] could put Donald Trump in that like [18:47] anti-establishment class, but like [18:48] >> yeah, [18:49] >> he’s a populist in in how he speaks. [18:52] There is likely going to be a populist [18:54] in how they legislate, how they govern. [18:56] Not to just like be a prisoner of the [18:57] moment with mom Donnie, but like really [18:58] this energy was building from Bernie. [19:00] It’s been building for a while. We’re [19:02] probably due for for something like [19:04] that. You know, it is so tricky to [19:06] predict cuz even within I get where [19:08] you’re going with like the homogyny of [19:09] like them all being boomers, but like [19:10] when you look at where we went from Bush [19:13] to to Obama, it was completely like we [19:18] go from like a time period where we’re [19:19] caring mostly about national security. [19:21] We come fresh from 911. We need we’re [19:24] like the politicians are wearing flag [19:26] pins and you know, and then we get like [19:29] a Yeah. And then we get like a like, you [19:32] know, a a darker skinned person with a [19:35] weird name, [19:36] >> right? Or even like even the move to [19:38] Trump. We’re coming at a time where the [19:40] Republicans are actually like [19:42] >> opening up their tone a little more on [19:44] immigration. And then here he comes with [19:46] this very xenophobic approach. That was [19:49] not where the party the party was going [19:50] Ted Cruz. The party was going Marco [19:52] Rubio. [19:53] >> And I thought Donald Trump was going to [19:54] go that direction, too, cuz he hires all [19:56] the time. Like like of he likes [19:58] immigrants. They’re great. They keep [19:59] costs low. [20:01] >> Yeah. And so I’m saying that to say like [20:03] it is so hard to predict where exactly [20:06] we’re going outside of like clearly [20:09] >> at some point we will get the populace [20:11] of the left. [20:12] >> Yeah. What what feels very clear to me [20:15] is that there are a lot of things that [20:17] are working against Donald Trump right [20:19] now, but one of them is that he lines up [20:21] billionaires and puts them all around [20:23] himself. He gilds the Oval Office in [20:26] Home Depot stuff, spray painted gold. [20:29] He’s like, “Hey, donate some portion of [20:31] your billions to my weird ballroom. [20:33] Donate to my presidential library and [20:35] I’ll give you favors.” This very sort of [20:37] crony capitalism version of populism, [20:40] which I guess is not like that. That’s [20:42] not something that doesn’t happen with [20:43] populist leaders. Sometimes they’re [20:45] like, “Yeah, I’m a populist.” And then [20:46] it’s like and also I really really would [20:48] like to benefit financially from the [20:51] power that I have accumulated here. [20:54] >> But it does feel to me you see these [20:56] Trump MDI voters, you see Trump Bernie [20:59] voters and and so like the the the line [21:02] in my head is not the line in the real [21:05] world, [21:05] >> right? [21:06] >> Between like you know this is a [21:07] conservative, he’s is a nationalist, [21:09] he’s xenophobic, and then Bernie over [21:11] here is like the opposite of all of [21:13] those things. But they have the same [21:14] thing in that they have they are right [21:17] that people are pissed off about how [21:18] things are right now. They they there’s [21:20] a they a a kind of lack of dignity, a [21:23] lack of respect from society. [21:25] >> They’re tapping into the the longing for [21:27] the retrenchment of the status quo. I [21:28] mean this is where Vice President Harris [21:30] I think went a little wrong with her [21:32] campaign is like she protected the very [21:35] institutions that are in the trash right [21:37] now. You ask people do they trust the [21:38] institution of politics? Even even it [21:40] goes as far as the institution of [21:41] religion, the institution. People don’t [21:43] trust institutions anymore, at least the [21:45] way that they used to. And I think [21:47] >> the Trump Ma mandi voters both hear that [21:51] in their candidates. The only difference [21:53] is like Donald Trump became the [21:55] institute. Like he he serve he usurped [21:57] the entire party and still blames the [22:00] system of politics that he’s created. [22:01] >> He’s in charge of the entire government, [22:04] but the government is still the problem. [22:05] And I can’t exactly square that circle, [22:07] but doesn’t really matter. You know what [22:09] I mean? This anti instit institutional [22:12] thing to me feels like an inevitable [22:15] like this happens when there are media [22:17] revolutions when more people get access [22:20] to the the levers of communication. [22:22] There tends to be an anti-institutional [22:25] moment and then you rebuild those [22:27] institutions and they tend to be better [22:29] when you rebuild them. [22:31] >> That transition time tends to be [22:33] unpleasant and it can be anywhere from a [22:36] couple of decades to a couple of [22:37] centuries. So, let’s hope for the [22:39] transition being relatively short. Like, [22:41] I feel there’s like something very [22:42] interesting about Pete Buddha Judge not [22:44] wanting to talk about Zor and Mrani. [22:48] >> Yes. [22:48] >> And because they do represent these two [22:51] different versions of things, but they [22:53] have something in common that I’m [22:55] obsessed with, which is that they’re [22:56] both explainers. [22:58] >> Yes. [22:59] >> So, so Zoran like goes on and and he’s [23:03] like, “Here’s what we need to do. we [23:05] need to have a corporate tax that [23:07] matches New Jerseys and we need the 2% [23:09] millionaire tax and I need to make [23:11] alliances with Albany to make that [23:13] happen. And I’m like that was so few [23:15] words and I understand exactly what you [23:18] mean and so does everybody who heard [23:20] them [23:21] >> and Pete is also great at this where [23:23] he’s like instead of having this long [23:25] conversation about how Donald Trump is [23:26] corrupt, he says it in 16 words and [23:28] you’re like yeah that is freaking [23:29] corrupt. That’s some corrupt right [23:31] there. One of them is an explainer [23:33] that’s like, “We need to do things [23:35] fundamentally differently.” And one of [23:37] them is an explainer who’s like, “All [23:38] these people are working really hard and [23:40] actually the systems we have right now [23:41] are pretty good.” [23:42] >> I really don’t mean this in any way to [23:45] undermine Mum Donnie. I think he’s [23:48] extremely talented and I’m hyped to see [23:49] what he does in New York. [23:51] >> Yeah. But you did see the closer he got [23:54] to becoming the mayor, [23:57] how his tone about some of those in like [24:00] how the institutions started to change. [24:03] His tone about the federal, you know, [24:05] the the police, his tone. So I, you [24:07] know, I’m not saying that to say that [24:08] his advocacy where it stands now is not [24:11] authentic, but I think it is always [24:14] easier when you are on the outside. [24:17] >> Oh yeah. then and so I could see him [24:20] ending up actually where [24:24] Yeah, I could see it. I could see it. [24:26] >> One of the things that I like about Mom [24:28] Donnie is that he he’s a little bit [24:30] like, okay, the problem exists. Let’s [24:33] move. Because if you just sort of like [24:35] wait, everybody sees you waiting. [24:38] >> Yeah. Yeah. I think that sometimes we [24:40] can be like, you know, you look at the [24:44] consumer price index and you look at [24:46] like like all these like, well, you [24:48] know, like I could see where like how [24:50] people are doing, but when you ask [24:51] people how they’re doing, what are their [24:53] worries? What are their big concerns [24:54] about [24:55] >> were definitely affordability is the the [24:57] big thing of just like everyday goods [24:59] costs. Like I remember for a while [25:00] before Biden announced that he was going [25:02] to run again, my firm was doing some [25:04] work with that administration and we [25:06] were big on it was wages. wages wages [25:09] that’s what we thought were people were [25:11] and more so than people wanted their [25:12] wages increased they wanted the prices [25:14] of things to come down I think to the [25:16] point that you’re talking about like the [25:17] consumer price index [25:19] >> and the GDP and the G&P and unemployment [25:21] rate rate and these like large [25:22] macroeconomic measurements they don’t [25:25] capture the pain that people are feeling [25:26] so one of the things that we started [25:28] tracking which is like do you feel like [25:29] you’re spending more money on groceries [25:31] today than you were last year and [25:33] currently right now today 77% of people [25:35] feel that way that was just it paired it [25:38] had more of a correlative relationship [25:39] with where people were no matter what [25:41] the jobs numbers were. So yeah, I think [25:43] it’s it’s mainly affordability. It’s [25:45] mainly what’s right in front of people, [25:46] gas, groceries, and those things. [25:48] >> Is there some way that you look at [25:50] people’s faith at institutions? [25:53] >> Yeah, we just straight up ask. I mean, [25:55] we have there’s ways you can do it. [25:57] There’s like a sliding scale of warmth. [25:59] So when people are taking surveys [26:00] online, like how warm or cold do you [26:02] feel about these institutions? Sometimes [26:03] we’ll just give them a number. Not only [26:05] is are people’s trust in institutions [26:07] low, it’s declining. It’s been declining [26:09] ever since I became a pollster. [26:10] >> I bet it’s been declining since before [26:12] that. [26:12] >> Oh yeah. Yeah. I’m sure this I I’ve just [26:15] watched it decline every year. You know, [26:16] >> the fact that you can see it over those [26:19] not that many years means that the rate [26:22] is pretty rapid. It’s not it’s not like [26:24] off it’s not like so close that you’re [26:26] not sure year to year. You know, if it’s [26:28] really going down every year, that’s [26:30] significant. [26:30] >> And like I said before, you know, it’s [26:32] not even just politics. I mean, we’re [26:34] watching like black people renegotiate [26:37] their relationship with the institutions [26:38] of Christianity, you know, we’re [26:40] watching all types of like our [26:42] relationships with like econ academic [26:44] institutions. The trust in academic [26:46] institutions JD Vance is doing a really [26:48] good job of making people wonder whether [26:50] or not they should trust the Harvards of [26:52] the world. I mean, yeah, [26:53] >> it’s a it’s a it’s a holistic thing that [26:55] I think we’re going to have to account [26:56] for. I don’t know how, but we’re going [26:58] to have to at some point. Do you think [27:00] that part of what is next is is some [27:03] systems that rebuild that trust somehow [27:06] or do you cuz there’s only so much like [27:09] a a leader can be like that thing over [27:11] there is the problem and I want to be in [27:12] charge of it and then keep saying that [27:14] thing over there I’m in charge of it but [27:16] it’s still the problem. [27:17] >> I don’t think it’ll be like a one leader [27:19] or even like a one movement. I think a [27:22] lot of it is coming from the rapid [27:25] increase in globalization. [27:27] We have such a [27:30] inelegant I’ll say hold on [27:35] what is true and what’s not when we open [27:38] our phone and read it and it is just [27:40] making people so cynical about [27:43] everything they thought they knew. And [27:45] the thing that is the reason why it’s so [27:47] effective is because some of that [27:49] cynicism was warranted. [27:51] >> Right. [27:51] >> Yeah. [27:52] >> And then some of it’s just not. Like [27:54] I’ll have people be like, “Well, I won’t [27:56] take the COVID vaccine because I don’t [27:57] know how CO works.” I’m like, “You don’t [27:59] know how your zipper works.” Like, but [28:02] you you pull on the lever and zip it up [28:04] every day, you know? So, [28:06] >> I don’t And when it doesn’t work, I also [28:08] don’t know how that’s happening. I just [28:10] give up. It’s like, I guess these I [28:11] guess these are rags now. [28:14] >> Get some new pants. [28:16] there’s this traditional like left right [28:19] or political axis stuff like are you [28:21] like you know if you you more you know [28:23] where do you fall on the chart if you [28:25] could recreate based on what you know [28:27] about the American people right now [28:29] because I think that this might might [28:31] tell us a little bit about like what the [28:33] what form the realignment takes because [28:35] it isn’t just about left right [28:38] >> no [28:38] >> government power not government power [28:40] anymore it it’s about other things where [28:42] will politicians fall in the future [28:45] on a different alignment chart. Like [28:47] what would that chart be made up of? [28:49] >> Because of the Trump administration [28:53] and their inability to be transparent, [28:57] but the attraction is the authenticity. [29:00] >> Yeah. [29:01] >> I think there’s something there. I think [29:03] it’s it might not even be authenticity, [29:05] but it’s the feeling of authenticity. [29:07] Like I see so many black people way far [29:10] too many black men voted for Trump and [29:12] they’ll say things like at least I know [29:15] where he stand like I feel like I I at [29:16] least know where he stands on this issue [29:18] or that issue. [29:19] >> I get him. Yeah, [29:20] >> I get him. [29:21] >> He’s not he’s not trying to make it like [29:24] this. This is totally a thing that I it [29:27] infuriates me. It’s it’s why Trump is [29:30] good on podcasts and so many uh leftwing [29:33] politicians are not because they all [29:36] trying to talk in talking points because [29:38] they all got trained for the cable news [29:40] world that doesn’t matter anymore. [29:43] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [29:45] >> It’s like, oh, did you want to convince [29:47] a bunch of 70year-olds who already know [29:49] exactly how they’re going to vote? Yeah. [29:51] Go on the TV show. Mhm. [29:54] >> If you want to convince regular people [29:56] like you got to go talk to Andrew [29:57] Schultz, I guess. [29:58] >> No, it’s it’s so real. If you read [30:01] Donald Trump’s transcripts from any [30:04] speech, it actually looks like you’re [30:07] listening to a sixth grader [30:11] where it like a fifth grader talk. It’s [30:14] like very big, very good. Really big [30:16] actually. Really good actually. So good. [30:20] The best maybe even. It’s like, yo, we [30:24] went from like people who had to be the [30:26] first black editor of the Harvard Review [30:29] just to win the Senate and to this just [30:31] like good, good, bad. [30:33] >> But it there’s an accessibility to it. [30:34] There’s an authenticity to it [30:36] >> that just like that feels like something [30:38] >> I do feel like I get him. [30:40] >> I get sometimes I get really confused, [30:43] but most of the time I feel like I know [30:44] what this guy’s about, which is [30:46] enriching himself personally. Yes. [30:51] >> So, I think there’s something there with [30:53] like just the feel because I to your [30:55] point about the enriching himself, it’s [30:57] not actual authenticity. He doesn’t [30:59] really believe a lot of what he’s saying [31:01] when he’s pointing at Mexicans and [31:03] Muslims ruining the country when he [31:05] understands probably to a certain extent [31:08] how an economic system that was focused [31:10] around manufacturing brought to [31:11] information age technology left some [31:13] people out. [31:14] >> That’s the real explainer, right? like [31:16] and some some consolidation of wealth [31:18] and wage suppression like he probably [31:20] knows a little bit about that but it’s [31:21] easier to say Mexicans and people will [31:24] believe it. [31:25] >> So I think that at least the appearance [31:27] and the feeling of authenticity would be [31:29] on that axis. [31:30] >> So here’s one that I want to hit you [31:32] with. What about like another Trump [31:34] Zoran juxosition is like I feel like if [31:39] I’m a Trump supporter I feel like Trump [31:40] is my bulldog. He’s there to go get [31:43] people for me. I don’t want him to look [31:45] happy [31:46] >> because things are very bad. I want him [31:48] to be angry. [31:49] >> I want him to be like fight for the real [31:52] Americans. And if I’m a Mam Donni fan, [31:55] I’m like this guy looks happy a lot. [31:59] >> He’s like smiling. He’s like in the [32:02] synagogues. He’s like doing the the work [32:04] and showing up and being like default [32:06] state Zoran likes you. Default state [32:08] Donald Trump doesn’t. You know, [32:11] >> somewhere on there. And and I I think [32:13] the real axis right now is [32:17] institutions. [32:19] >> Yeah. [32:19] >> Versus like trust versus no trust. [32:22] >> Yeah. [32:23] >> And no trust is winning so hard right [32:25] now. [32:26] >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean it’s not even it’s [32:29] it’s winning so hard it might not even [32:31] end up being like a a justifiable axis. [32:36] I mean [32:36] >> because because there isn’t anybody on [32:38] the other side. There is [32:39] >> almost there’s almost nobody over there. [32:41] I mean, the people that are over there [32:42] are just actually the the institutions [32:45] themselves. [32:48] >> Like certainly you’re not going to win [32:49] an election being like, I think [32:51] everything’s fine. [32:52] >> Yeah. [32:53] >> But but I do see, you know, Pete Buddhaj [32:56] is going to run for president. He’s [32:58] >> and he he’s like, I love the Department [33:00] of Transportation, you know. I love I [33:03] love it when people are working hard to [33:04] make a train car better, you know, and [33:06] he thinks that that Amtrak is probably [33:08] working hard to make the train cars [33:09] better. And I like, you know, I’m more [33:11] of an institutionalist. I think people [33:13] will know this about me. It’s it’s not [33:15] that I think that the systems are good. [33:17] It’s that I think everybody’s trying. [33:20] I think it’s hard and the problems are [33:22] hard and people are trying. [33:23] >> I think that Pete has you you said this [33:25] earlier, he has such a good grasp on [33:29] explaining how the institutions are [33:31] supposed to work when they work [33:34] >> that it makes you not feel like we need [33:37] to blow them up. Whereas like there were [33:41] candidates who just stood in front of [33:43] the institutions [33:45] and said I want to make them better. It [33:48] seems almost like the same thing that [33:50] Pete Buddhaj is saying but Pete is [33:51] telling you like it’s not just that I [33:53] want to make them better. Like this is [33:55] how they’re actually supposed to work. I [33:56] guess with the right communication [33:58] skills someone could do that but I can’t [34:00] think of another person [34:02] >> who could do that but Pete Budajic, [34:04] honestly. [34:05] >> Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about what’s [34:08] that guy he’s a Texas Democrat and he is [34:11] a a talks about his Christianity and his [34:14] faith a lot. [34:15] >> Oh yes. [34:16] >> Uh and and like there’s a like a a [34:20] certain sense there of hey there are [34:24] these systems that have existed for a [34:26] long time including Christianity. [34:29] >> Yeah. But other ones that like maybe [34:32] when we abandon them wholesale and we do [34:36] harm to ourselves. But like what you [34:38] actually have to look at again is that [34:41] okay what are these systems actually [34:42] supposed to do and are they doing that [34:44] or are they just being used as levers of [34:46] power to enrich others and to hurt us. [34:49] Really at the root of this, it’s just so [34:51] much easier to tell a story and to get [34:53] attention from a story about how you are [34:56] being abused by a powerful thing than [34:58] how you are being helped by a powerful [35:00] thing. Like who wants to listen to the [35:01] story [35:02] >> about how they actually do a pretty good [35:04] job of running the highways, you know? [35:07] >> I still think I mean Telerico I looked [35:09] him up. Yeah. I I still think that he [35:13] his best politicians like him and they [35:16] come in different forms. not always like [35:17] someone who can, you know, put a [35:18] positive light on something [35:20] Christianity. It could be a different [35:21] form. I still think that they will be [35:23] best served for winning in their [35:25] communities. [35:26] >> Yeah. but broad support and someone to [35:30] become a rudder of the party. I just do [35:34] not see it for [35:36] >> so one thing that we know what that that [35:38] we’re pretty sure of is that the the [35:41] future will not be one [35:44] uh that is shouting about how we should [35:46] trust institutions. [35:47] >> I would be just so shocked if that [35:51] person could even come out of a primary. [35:53] I I would be [35:55] >> just so incredibly shocked. It would it [35:57] would make me rethink everything that I [35:59] think I know [36:01] >> about this moment. [36:02] >> I that is what happened to me when when [36:04] I was really sure that Donald Trump [36:06] could not become president even one [36:08] time. [36:08] >> The second time though there was [36:09] probably you’ve probably [36:10] >> the second time I was like yeah I was [36:12] like oh this was a I mean I’ll tell you [36:15] what on January 8th I didn’t think he [36:17] was going to be a president second time [36:19] >> I was like there’s no way. And then we [36:22] started doing some more polling closer [36:23] to the election and I was like, “Oh no, [36:25] there’s a way.” [36:25] >> Oh yeah, there’s a way. Turns out there [36:28] was a way. We were talking a lot about [36:29] Democrats. What do you think the sort of [36:31] of the right version of this story is? [36:35] Is it [36:35] >> the future of the right? [36:36] >> Is it JD Vance vibes? [36:39] >> You know, I really don’t think it is. I [36:41] think that JD Vance is is really well [36:44] positioned to like be a good Republican [36:47] candidate in this moment, but I and [36:50] maybe I maybe I’m wrong on this, but I [36:52] actually think that like the next moment [36:55] of the Republican party will try to get [36:57] away from the MAGA tone. [37:01] >> Now, he will he will try to change his [37:02] tone because he’ll be whatever he needs [37:04] to be. [37:04] >> It does seem like that is a JD Vance [37:07] trait. [37:08] Yeah, but I just don’t I don’t think and [37:10] and you know this is also true of cults. [37:12] Usually when the the leader, which their [37:14] cult, let’s call it what it is. When the [37:15] leader is gone, the cult usually [37:16] dissolves, it’s usually the personality [37:18] and the charisma of the leader that [37:20] drives the cult. [37:21] >> And just by virtue of if not biology, [37:24] then ideally the constitution or um you [37:27] know the the rules of the nation, the [37:29] Trump era, this the of of actually with [37:32] Donald Trump in charge is coming to an [37:34] end. I don’t think that there is a uh [37:36] Don Jr. version of this. [37:38] >> No. [37:39] >> Um, [37:40] >> no. [37:40] >> And it’s certainly if there was, it [37:42] wouldn’t even be Don Jr. [37:43] >> So even now, even with like, as the [37:46] inevitability is sinking in, it feels [37:49] like it’s falling apart. [37:50] >> You have Marjorie Taylor Green, a like [37:52] staunch supporter, [37:54] >> yeah, [37:55] >> bucking the norm. You have the Indiana [37:58] state senators under direct creed from [38:00] Donald Trump to redistrict going against [38:03] I mean you have the bipartisan [38:05] subcommittee in the House of Oversight [38:07] led by a Republican in Comr releasing [38:10] documents and the screenshots that Trump [38:13] is actively telling him not to. It’s [38:15] it’s cracking. It’s cracking for sure. [38:17] >> The other thing is that it it feels like [38:19] populism tends to happen in one of two [38:22] ways. one, you identify uh a [38:24] marginalized group and you like sort of [38:26] make them [38:28] >> the enemy. [38:29] >> Two, you identify a very powerful group [38:32] and you make them the enemy. And in part [38:34] because Donald Trump has surrounded [38:35] himself and staffed his entire [38:36] administration with billionaires and [38:39] done lots of things to sort of like on [38:40] the table enrich himself with his power [38:43] at the expense of the American citizen. [38:45] It’s very hard for me to imagine that [38:47] like the immediate next thing that will [38:49] happen will not be a populism of the [38:52] left that is quite powerful. [38:54] >> It’s the only clear bucket to me. I [38:57] don’t know what the next bucket that [38:58] would arise would be. There was a time [39:01] period where I was like I feel like it [39:03] was right when um like the Latino [39:05] community passed black Americans in [39:08] population. I was like, “Okay, what if [39:10] our next [39:12] >> go at it here is like a Hispanic leader [39:14] that’s very charismatic, speaks Spanish, [39:16] speaks English.” I mean, I remember from [39:18] the whole um Bad Bunny situation [39:20] learning that like the United States has [39:22] the second most Spanish speakers of any [39:25] other country. I was like, whoa, I [39:27] didn’t know that. [39:27] >> Yeah. [39:28] >> And I was like, I I maybe could see [39:30] that, you know? Uh I don’t see it now. I [39:33] don’t see it at all. Uh, so yeah, I’m [39:35] just saying to say I don’t know what [39:36] another clear bucket would be other than [39:38] that one. I think that there is a [39:40] pendulum swing that needs to just come [39:42] back somewhere. And a lot of the ideals [39:45] that I would consider to be extremely [39:47] progressive should not be progressive. [39:49] >> That should be a very middle of the line [39:51] thing. Like why are we still talk Why is [39:53] being pro-choice progressive in 2025? [39:56] >> That should not be progressive, you [39:58] know? [39:58] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why why is universal [40:00] healthcare uh a progressive idea? Why is [40:03] Yeah. when when it’s like the default [40:04] state in every other [40:06] >> situation uh in every other advanced [40:09] country. I mean I I understand that it’s [40:11] a hard problem in America and that you [40:13] know we locked ourselves into a system [40:15] early on. Ultimately the the question is [40:18] how much will we see the injustice [40:23] and and also how will we respond to it [40:24] because I think that we’re pretty good [40:25] at not seeing injustice. [40:28] >> Um [40:28] >> history would say so. Yeah. [40:30] >> Yeah. Just a little bit. Just like a, [40:32] you know, some stuff happened. [40:35] >> Yeah. Yeah. Some stuff happened. [40:37] >> Look, we won’t have history books in [40:38] like 10 years. [40:40] >> Yeah. No, I don’t know what you mean. I [40:42] didn’t learn about it in school. [40:44] >> No. Um, so leftwing populism could take [40:48] a lot of forms. And I think that there [40:49] is plenty of possibility. You look at [40:53] the sort of, you know, institutions as [40:54] they are. you look at the, you know, [40:56] landscape of the country as it is that a [40:58] lot of the sort of problems identified [41:00] by a leftwing populism could could be [41:03] solved in ways that are not tear [41:04] everything down and like, you know, [41:07] rebuild from scratch. [41:08] >> I would hope so. I don’t I guess I have [41:11] in my head what that looks like because [41:13] I see [41:14] >> I mean I hope that [41:15] >> is so it looks like some kind of new [41:18] deal. I don’t know like Yeah, but I [41:20] don’t I like the the money has to come [41:22] from somewhere though. I just think that [41:24] you like you tax it. You tax people. [41:27] >> I’m with it. I’m with it. I’ve been with [41:29] it from the start. I’m like, tax them, [41:31] dude. What are we What are we talking [41:33] about? This isn’t even that hard. [41:34] >> This is Yeah. No, I mean it’s just like [41:37] Yeah. And they’re like, “Tax the [41:38] billionaires.” And I’m like, “Yes, but [41:40] also me, you know, like like also the [41:43] dentist also.” [41:45] >> Yeah. The billionaires first though. Get [41:47] those Jesus. [41:48] >> Oh, sure. because they stall the economy [41:50] in ways like you can’t buy you’re not [41:52] buying a billion groceries a billion a [41:54] billion dollars worth of groceries [41:55] billion dollar kinds of problem I mean [41:57] the real reason to tax the billionaires [41:59] is because they immediately have shown [42:01] that they will happily degrade democracy [42:04] and become oligarchs these people don’t [42:06] have like an alliance like some kind of [42:08] ideological connection to capitalism [42:10] they will happily no longer have [42:13] competition they will that’s that’s the [42:15] goal they would love to be oligarchs [42:17] >> absolutely And that is like the the the [42:19] competition pieces where I always like [42:21] kind of stop and correct people when we [42:23] get critical of capitalism, at least if [42:25] we’re being academic about it because [42:27] capitalism, the way that it is [42:29] originally laid out, is one that is [42:31] supposed to increase competition. It is [42:34] a competition forward economic [42:36] structure. Corporatism is not. And we’re [42:38] at a point of intense unfettered [42:41] corporatism. We are past the ideas of [42:43] capitalism. [42:44] >> Yeah. And we’ve and we have got a guy in [42:46] power right now who will happily sell [42:49] access to more lax regulation and will [42:53] happily use regulation as a cudgel if [42:55] you do things he doesn’t want you to do [42:57] and if you give enough money to his [42:58] ballroom you’ll get preferential [43:00] treatment and Jensen Hong is in his [43:03] office every day doing stuff and and [43:05] like just convincing him to do things [43:09] because Donald Trump needs the stock [43:11] market to go up or else he’ll really [43:13] have Nothing. [43:14] >> How much longer does he think he has? [43:17] Like he’s making moves like he’s about [43:19] to live another 40. I don’t know, dude. [43:21] You eat McDonald’s every like you don’t [43:23] got that much longer. You’re you’re [43:25] mortgaging America’s future for a [43:27] hundred years for like you got like [43:30] seven more, dude. Like [43:32] >> Well, here I mean I don’t want to [43:34] psychoanalyze Donald Trump, but I [43:37] sometimes you’re just a moth to flame, [43:39] you know? Sometimes you just go toward [43:41] the light. And if you’ve been doing it [43:43] your whole career, [43:45] >> you just go, you’re like, “Oh, I got [43:46] leverage. I gotta use that to my [43:48] advantage. Oh, I got more leverage. I [43:49] gotta use that to my advantage.” You do [43:51] the thing. You know, as a guy who’s uh [43:53] not unfamiliar with some moments in my [43:55] life when I have seen an opportunity and [43:58] took it even though it didn’t make my [43:59] life better. I get it to some extent. [44:02] >> That’s real. No, it’s true. You get you [44:04] get more addicted to the win than the [44:06] actual thing that the wind was supposed [44:08] to [44:09] >> supposed to give you. Yeah. But then it [44:11] keeps existing because it didn’t fail. [44:13] And then you got to keep doing that. [44:14] We’ve set it up so that like it’s so [44:17] obvious that the powerful will take the [44:19] power and that like the level of [44:21] inequality is unsustainable. [44:24] >> Mhm. [44:24] >> It absolutely we always it’s around the [44:27] 20 like am I correct with saying it’s [44:29] around like the 20 1820s 1720 like we [44:32] get in these 1920s. [44:35] I feel like we get it’s like a [44:36] hundredyear cycle. [44:38] >> Like [44:38] >> it does feel a little bit like I I just [44:41] have to emphasize how bad the 30s were. [44:45] >> Like we’re coming up on them. [44:47] >> I don’t want to do that. [44:48] >> Yeah, we’re coming up on on a little bit [44:51] of a great depression that came, am I [44:53] right? It came right after like the [44:54] Robin Baron like [44:57] did. And Donald Trump during the [44:58] shutdown had a great gas. Yo, that’s [45:02] that was actually really poetic. I was [45:04] like, “Wait, [45:06] >> do you do you know what you’re do you [45:08] get it? Are you in Are you aware?” [45:13] >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess he thinks he [45:15] he will be the Vanderbilts and the [45:17] Rockefeller that that lasted even past [45:21] the Great Depression. [45:22] >> Yeah. [45:22] >> But I don’t think I don’t think the [45:24] Trump name will. You got to share the [45:26] wealth for that. How can we fix the [45:28] world, Hank? [45:29] >> Well, thank you for spending a little [45:30] time. I think at least it’s going to be [45:32] interesting for [45:33] >> having me. [45:34] >> Yeah. I appreciate you for having me on.